the male that had to, that saw the feminine principle and the feminine energy as a threat because it
could not fully establish itself in that.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：自我不得不那样做，因为它看到女性原则和女性能量对它产生威胁，而它又没能在内心建立属于男性自己的原则。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You believe we would've had a "new earth" a lot sooner if there had been not the suppression of the female.
欧普拉（主持人）：你相信，如果没有对女性的压迫，我们人类早就不一样了。
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes,
probably, yes. But the shift is happening now, and the interesting thing is that there are more women changing, going through the shift in consciousness than men. So men are going through, also, but there
are, for example, Elizabeth Lesser mentioned at her, at the Omega Institute, about 70, 75 percent of the people who come there for inner work, consciousness, transformation and so on are women. So women
are more open now to the change in consciousness that is happening than men. I'm not saying it's not happening to men also, but there's a greater openness…
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，也许。但是现在变化正在发生。有趣的是，与男性相比，更多的女性正在意识层发生改变。变化也发生在男性身上，但是，欧米茄研究所的伊丽莎白丽塞提到，来研修内在，意识，转化等等的人中，有70-75℅是女性。因此，女性比男性对于意识层的改变更开放。我不是说男性没有变化，而是女性更开放……
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, we have a few out there. We love it. Yeah. Audrey in Campbell, California, one of our e-mails says, "I have 20 pounds to lose. As a child my father and brother called
me 'big girl' and 'big fat cow.'" That's not good. Could this be why, Audrey, that's not good at all.
"Could this be why I have such difficulty losing the weight? I've been hearing these words in my head for years and years, and I can't let the words go. Help."
欧普拉（主持人）：耶。我们有几个例子。在加利福尼亚的坎贝尔的奥黛丽就是其中一位，她在给我们的邮件中写到：“我要减掉20英镑。我小的时候爸爸和哥哥就叫我‘大女孩’，‘大肥牛’”。那真的不好，一点也不好，“这有可能是我减肥困难的原因吗？我听了很多年这样的话，我离不开这些话了。救救我。”
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
So, of course, these words have become lodged in your mind, and they have taken up residence in your mind, and now you can't get rid of them. So they are—again, thoughts are energy formations and
thoughts that get lodged in your mind, sometimes they start in childhood when parents tell you something negative. For example, some parents tell their children, "You are stupid." It's a stupid thing
to say.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。这些话已经定居在你的心里，它们已经住下了，现在你赶不走它们了。因此它们-这些想法就是能量形式，它们定居在你的思维里，有时它们开始于孩提时代父母说的一些消极否定的话。例如，有些父母说孩子：“你真傻。”这样说非常傻。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. It's a stupid thing to say that kids are stupid. Yeah.
欧普拉（主持人）：是的。说孩子傻是一件非常愚蠢的事。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And
if told that repeatedly, this thought becomes lodged in their minds. And it's a, a thought can, if you're not, if you don't bring presence to it now, you won't be able to dislodge it. So the first thing is to
realize that what has happened to you is that something that you were told years ago repeatedly is
now, has now become a thought that refuses to leave. It's an energy. You're possessed, so to speak, temporarily, hopefully, by a thought. Some of you may have seen a film called The Number 23 with Jim Carrey last year, and that's a man who becomes obsessed with the idea of the number 23. And he sees it, suddenly he sees everywhere significance in the number 23. And that's an example of how one
thought can take possession of your entire mind. And then through this one thought that takes possession of your entire mind, you interpret the whole universe, the whole of reality. This is how dangerous it can be, if you are not careful, how one thought can take you over. So realize, the
questioner here needs to realize that is an old thought and realize it's no more than a thought, it is not
the truth. It's an old record that has been playing itself over the years.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：如果家长总是这么说，这个思想就灌进了孩子的大脑里。如果你现在不面对它，你就不能卸载它。所以，首先你要意识到一个事实：很多年前父母说过很多遍的话已经变成了一个不愿意离去的想法，它是一份能量。可以这样说，你被一个想法缠上了，希望只是暂时的。你们中有没有人看过去年吉姆卡里的电影《数字23》，是关于一个对23这个数字着了魔的人。他看到23，然后他觉得满世界都是23。由此看出一个想法竟然可以俘虏全部思维，进而你用它来诠释整个宇宙，诠释整个现实世界。多么可怕，一不小心，一个想法就完全将你俘虏。所以，提问者一定要意识到那是一个旧的想法，那仅仅是一个想法，那不是事实。那是一张旧唱片，多年来不断地在播放。
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Over and over in your head. "Big fat cow, big fat cow, big fat cow."
欧普拉（主持人）：在你的头脑中一遍一遍地播放：“大肥牛，大肥牛，大肥牛。”
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. No more than an old…
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，只是一张旧的……
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's just a tape.
欧普拉（主持人）：唱片。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No more than a tape.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：只是一张唱片。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): [unintelligible]
欧普拉（主持人）：【听不清的】
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So when you hear it again, when you hear that in your mind, you realize, there's the old tape again.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：所以当你再次听到它时，当它出现在头脑里时，请你意识到：旧唱片又在播放了。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right.
欧普拉（主持人）：对的。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It loses its power because it's no more than that.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：当你意识到情况不过如此，它就失去了往日的威力。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. There's an old tape for the past and the past has no power
over the present moment.
欧普拉（主持人）：对的。旧唱片中装的是过去的故事，过去对现在没有威力。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：没有。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're right. I love also when you say that thinking is no more than a
tiny aspect of the totality of consciousness, the totality of who you are.
欧普拉（主持人）：正确。我也非常喜欢你说思考仅仅是我们全部意识的一个微小的方面，是我们全部存在的一个微小的部分。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I had an awakening moment with that thought because we all think we
are, up until reading this book, I think so many of us, I was one of those people, thinking that we were our thoughts.
欧普拉（主持人）：那个说法令我觉醒，因为读这本书之前，我们大多数人包括我，都认为我们就是我们的思想。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then to read that thinking, not only are we not our thoughts, we are
the awareness of our thoughts. But that thinking is only no more than a tiny aspect of the totality of
consciousness, the totality of who you are.
欧普拉（主持人）：读过这章，知道了我们不是我们的思想，我们是我们的思想意识。思考仅仅是我们全部意识的一个微小方面，是我们整体存在的一个微小部分。
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
And the awareness, of course, compared to thinking, the awareness is vast. It's limitless and has infinite potential for anything creative to come into your life.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。与思考相比，意识是巨大的。它是无限的，它有着无穷的潜力，可以为我们的生命创造任何东西。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's where all your creative comes from.
欧普拉（主持人）：意识才是你创造力的源泉。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, not through thinking. Thinking can become a secondary tool in manifesting something, but not the creative. Inside the creative realization, the creative idea does not come through the movement of thinking.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，创造不是来源于思考。思考是第二位的工具，在创造发生时，创造性的想法不是来源于思考。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. Think about that, everybody. That when you have a creative, an, inspiration does not come through your thoughts.
欧普拉（主持人）：哇哦，我们需要好好体会一下。当你有一个新主意，灵感涌现，这其实不是你想出来的。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：不是。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It comes through your being.
欧普拉（主持人）：这是你的意识带来的。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And so the space of awareness…
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。所以意识的空间……
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Space of awareness.
欧普拉（主持人）：意识的空间。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now,
to the extent to which you are creative in your life depends on how much access you have in yourself
to that space of awareness, of presence. And it's sometimes enough for brief moments to have access to that, and for some people, that's enough to lead a creative life.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：你在生活中创造力的大小取决于你为你的意识空间，为你回归当下留了多宽的通路，这样，就足够你有时灵光闪现，甚至对于某些人，就能够过上有创造性的生活。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
欧普拉（主持人）：是呀。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But,
of course, we want to be more than that, not just have brief access, but to make it the very foundation
of your life.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：当然，我们还想要更好，而不仅仅是那样短暂的瞬间，我们想要生活以此为基础全部改观。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like when Quincy Jones was doing "We Are the World" tape and he brought together all of those artists and he left the door open. First, they had a sign outside the door
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that said, "Check your egos at the door." And then they left the door open. He said, "We wanted to leave room for God to walk into the room." Have, leave enough space for God to walk into the room. Yes. Cause that's…
欧普拉（主持人）：就像昆西·琼斯在制作“四海一家”时，他把那些艺术家聚到一起，然后让门开着。首先，他们在门外贴了张纸条，上面写到：“进门时检验自我。”然后他们就让那门开着。他说：“我们想要为上帝留一些空间，让上帝走进来。”为上帝留足够空间，让上帝进来。是的，因为……
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. So you need to, leaving the space.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，是的。所以你需要，留出空间。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Leaving the space.
欧普拉（主持人）：留出空间。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Leaving the space inside yourself.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：在你的内心留出空间。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.
欧普拉（主持人）：是的。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, also, if you want change in your life, some people don't know, there will be chapters and we'll talk about life purpose and so on, but the realization of what it is, for example, what it is that you are
meant to do in your life also comes from that inner space. Are you able to allow the space within?
Become still, and then whatever it is that you need to know will arise from that.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：因此，有些人想要生活发生变化，在另外的章节中，我们会谈到生活的目的等等，但是人们也许不知道，人生的使命是什么，何以实现？答案同样来自于你的内在空间。你的内心为这个答案留空了吗？静下来，你想要的答案就会自那个空间升起。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Come through that.
欧普拉（主持人）：来自那个空间。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Will come through that space.
欧普拉（主持人）：通过那个空间而来。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And
it may come as a thought, but then it will be an inspired thought.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：也许只是一个想法，但是一个具有灵性的想法。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
欧普拉（主持人）：对。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):
Without the space, without the stillness, without accessing that dimension, thinking cannot be inspired. There is no inspired thinking. The inspiration comes from the realm that is deeper than thought.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：如果没有那个空间，没有那份寂静，没有留出通道，思想就不能迸出火花。灵感不是想出来的，灵感来自于比思想更深更广的领域。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. And you're never going to think your way to a purpose.
欧普拉（主持人）：我明白了。不是想出办法，以求达到目的。
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. And you're not going to worry your way out of a problem.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：不是，也不是殚精竭虑，求得解决问题。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not going to worry your way out of a problem.
欧普拉（主持人）：殚精竭虑解决不了问题。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's impossible because worry means to manufacture more problems.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：因为担忧生产更多问题。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The same thing. You're just continuing the same thought over and over.
欧普拉（主持人）：担忧只是一个想法一遍一遍在脑中重复。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. You need a different kind of consciousness. Wasn't it Einstein that
said that? The same kind of consciousness…
欧普拉（主持人）：是的。你的意识需要发生变化。是爱因斯坦说过吗？同样的意识……
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, I
don't remember whether it was Einstein or Jung, but the, he said to the, a problem cannot be solved on the same level of consciousness that gave rise to the problem.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：我不记得是爱因斯坦还是荣格,但是话是这样的：解决一个问题的意识水平与导致一个问题的意识水平不应该是相同的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That created it.
欧普拉（主持人）：制造问题的意识水平。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have an e-mail from Judy in Columbia, South Carolina. "Could you
talk a bit about alcohol and drug abuse in the pain-body? Is this an attempt at escape from the pain- body; alcohol and drug abuse?
欧普拉（主持人）：哥伦比亚，南卡罗来纳的朱迪给我们写的邮件中说：“你们能谈谈痛苦之身滥用酒精和毒品吗？这是逃离痛苦之身的方法吗？”
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes,
often it is. And I mention that in the book. It's an escape of not wanting to feel the pain anymore. In some people, the pain-body is active almost all the time, and that is dreadful way to live. And those people in whom the pain-body is active almost all the time, often they will seek some kind of escape from it because they can't live with that pain anymore. The pain-body loves it, but it makes your life more and more miserable. So, but there is also a good chance and maybe that brings us to the, what connects us with the, what I said in the book, if people who have a heavy pain-body, their chance of awakening is also quite great because when life becomes unbearable because you're creating so much
pain continuously for yourself, your desire to awaken, to finally get out of this misery is much greater
than a normal person's desire to awaken. In other words, you could say when you're having a relatively pleasant dream, you don't mind so much dreaming on. But when your dream turns into a nightmare,
then you really want to awaken from that, and you can't stand it. And that was the case with me. I had
a very, very heavy pain-body that drove me almost, very close to suicide until I, the realization came,
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"I cannot live with myself any longer." And that thought was the breakthrough where the separation happened from consciousness that I am and the ego, and the pain-body that I had been identified with
as the unhappy little me.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，情况经常是那样。我在书里也写到了。人们想逃离那份痛苦。对于有些人，痛苦之身几乎时时刻刻都在活跃，那种生活非常可怕。由于痛苦之身永远活跃，他们必然想逃离，因为他们不堪其苦。然而，痛苦之身喜欢那样，把你的生活搞的越来越悲惨。其实，机会也随之而来。我在书中写到，如果人们的痛苦之身非常深重，那么他们觉醒的机会相对更大。因为，当你持续地制造痛苦，以致自己难以忍受，那么你觉醒的愿望，你脱离苦海的愿望则会比平常人强烈的多。换句话说，如果你的梦境还不错，那么你不介意是否接着梦下去。但是当它变成噩梦，你一定想快些醒来，你受不了了。其实我就是这样的。我有一个深重的痛苦之身，甚至我几乎要自杀，直到有一天，觉知降临：“我受不了我自己了。”这个想法令我的意识层面出现突破：我是谁，自己是谁，痛苦之身-那个不快乐的小我是谁。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Were you really actually going to kill yourself? Did you have a plan to kill yourself?
欧普拉（主持人）：你是真的要自杀吗？你有计划吗？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, I
had my first plans to kill myself, I already had at the age of 9 and 10.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，我早在9岁和10岁的时候就计划过自杀。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really?
欧普拉（主持人）：真的吗?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah.
So I had worked it all out, but somehow I didn't quite have the courage yet to do.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：真的。我都计划好了，只是当时缺乏勇气。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause the pain-body was so heavy even at 9 and 10?
欧普拉（主持人）：在你9岁10岁时痛苦之身就那么严重吗？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):
Already then it was quite heavy. Then it subsided a little bit, and then it came back again very strongly
in my 20s.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：那时就已经很严重。后来好了些，然后我20多岁时又变得非常严重。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. And what was it? What was it that caused you to feel—you felt depressed, you felt unworthy, you felt what?
欧普拉（主持人）：哦。究竟是为什么？是什么使你消沉，感到没有价值？你那时是什么感觉？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It was partly living in almost continuous conflict in the home environment between my parents, who were
always fighting. There was very little peace at home. I was very sensitive, so it was very hard for me
to even be there at home.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：一部分原因是我的家庭环境，我的父母永远在打架。家里没有和平。我特别敏感，所以我感到我甚至在家里呆不下去。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As you say in the book, for children who watch their parents fight, it's almost unbearable.
欧普拉（主持人）：正如你在书中所说，看见父母打架对于孩子来说是难以忍受的。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that, of course, contributes to their, a child's growing pain-bodies. So my pain-body grew very quickly and, but if this had not been the case, I wouldn't ever have awakened.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。我的敏感加重我的痛苦之身。我的痛苦之身迅速长大，要不是这样，我不会觉醒。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
欧普拉（主持人）：是呀。
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I
would have been in a relatively pleasant dream.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：我也许就在相对好的梦境中呆下去。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. If you had had a nice, happy childhood, you might not be sitting here teaching with us tonight.
欧普拉（主持人）：对呀。如果你有个美好的幸福的童年，你现在就不会坐在这里给我们上课。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Certainly not. No, no. So retrospectively, one is grateful for one's suffering because eventually suffering will wake you up.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：当然不会。所以，回首往日，人们该感谢曾经的苦难，因为，苦难会将你唤醒。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You said, when I read earlier on page 141 about "any negative emotion that's not fully faced and seen for what it is in the moment it arises does not completely dissolve. It leaves behind a remnant of pain." So when we are faced with negative emotions on a daily basis, we should embrace them, we should go into them rather than resist them.
欧普拉（主持人）：在书的141页，你说“任何在升起时未能得到充分面对的负性情感不会完全消散，而是留下了伤痛。”所以当我们在日常生活中遭遇负性情感时，我们应该拥抱它们，我们应该走进它们而不是抵制它们。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Accept whatever emotion.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。无论是什么都要接受。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Accept it.
欧普拉（主持人）：接受。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):
Accept because it's part of accepting the present moment because if a certain negative emotion is part
of what's happening in the present moment, what can you do? It's already happening, so you…
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：接受当时的发生，因为如果你当时确实产生了负性情感，你能做什么？已经发生了，所以你…
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Take it.
欧普拉（主持人）：接受它。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Take
it. (unintelligible) "Oh, there it is. I can feel that anger. I can feel the sadness. I can feel it." Be the space
for it. So accept that it is there. The acceptance of the present moment, no matter what form it takes, externally or internally, whatever form it takes, externally means whatever situation arises right
now, it always is as it is at this moment. You might as well say yes to it. Internally means whatever emotion arises at this moment it is as it is, you might as well say yes to it.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：接受它。（听不清的）“哦，它在那，我能感觉到怒火，我能感觉到悲伤，我感觉得到。”给这些感觉腾出空间。接受它在那里。接受那个时刻，无论是什么形式，是外部的还是内部的。外部的意思是无论周遭是什么状况，它此刻就是那样。你最好对它说是。内部的意思是无论此刻心中升起什么情感，就随它去，同样对它说是。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I know next week we're going to be talking about breaking free of
the pain-body, but just for now, if every time you can see it show itself and recognize it for what it is,
"There it is, there's my pain-body again. There it is again," that the awareness of it begins to dissolve
it, correct?
欧普拉（主持人）：好，下星期我们要谈论脱离痛苦之身，那现在，如果每次痛苦之身来了，你也认出了它：“它在那，那就是我的痛苦之身，它又来了。”对觉知到它开始令它消散，对吗？
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Let's go to our New Earth study group watching our webcast. Hey everybody at Borders on Michigan. Hi, are you enjoying the class tonight?
欧普拉（主持人）：好的。让我们加入《新世界》学习小组，观看我们的网络课程。密执安边境的朋友。你们好，今晚的课你们喜欢吗？
CROWD: Yes.
人群：喜欢。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Interesting. All the pain-bodies have gathered together at Borders. I hear
Courtney has a question.
欧普拉（主持人）：很有趣呀，所有的痛苦之身都聚在边境了。我听说考特尼有个问题。
COURTNEY: Yes, yes, I have a question.
考特尼：是是，我有个问题。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi.
欧普拉（主持人）：你好。
COURTNEY: I think a lot, so what I'm curious to know, you know, when I'm not in a relationship, I obsess that I'm going to be alone. And when I'm in a relationship, I obsess about my career or money or anything, and I think a lot of people my age obsess this—you know, money, career, finding a
relationship. What you say in the book, Eckhart, makes sense but what, I guess I'm having trouble with
is taking that and actually putting it, you know, changing my life, you know, kind of daily, I guess.
考特尼：我想的特别多，我非常好奇的是，当我没谈恋爱时，我担心我会单身。而当我谈起了恋爱，我担忧我的事业，金钱还有别的东西，我想我的同龄人很多都这样-钱啦，事业啦，恋爱啦。艾克哈特，你书里说的很有道理，但是我的麻烦是认可并且去实际应用那些道理，去改变我的日常生活。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love the "Makes sense, but…what you say makes sense, but...' Go ahead.
欧普拉（主持人）：我喜欢你说的“有道理，但是……”接着说。
COURTNEY: Well, it does make sense, but then I just don't know, I guess, I guess I'm having trouble putting that into my daily life.
考特尼：好的，确实有道理，但是我只是，我觉得我不能把它应用到生活中。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, actualize it.
欧普拉（主持人）：耶，怎样实施。
COURTNEY: How do I not obsess or thinking about these things all the time and try and stay in the present?
考特尼：我怎样才能不一直纠结一直思考，而活在当下呢？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, when you say "obsess," of course you're talking about certain thoughts that go through your head.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：好，当你说“纠结”时，你的大脑中闪出一些想法。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, over and over and over.
欧普拉（主持人）：是，一遍一遍又一遍的。
COURTNEY: Right, over and over and over.
考特尼：对，一遍一遍又一遍。
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So are you able sometimes to, while these thoughts go through your head, to recognize the futility of these thoughts? Are you sometimes able to be there as the presence in the background, or see, for example,
just after they happened, for the, let's see, for example, realize, "For the past 20 minutes I've been
obsessing about this or that. I'm having thoughts about a certain situation that's not here now." And
that's part, of course, of the structure of the egoic mind. It love structure s to do that. Are you sometimes already there as the presence or not? Are you always totally identified with the…
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：所以，当这些想法闪现时，你能够认识到它们毫无用处吗？你能够临在于当时吗？或者是在接下来立即意识到：“刚刚过去的20分钟，我又在头脑中纠缠不清，我是在考虑现在根本不存在的情况。”那就是自我思维的部分结构，它喜欢那样做。你能够有时候做到临在吗？经常能完全认出那些……
COURTNEY: No, sometimes I am. And in the hindsight I can go back and realize what I've done. But
it's in the moment when I'm doing this and I, and my mind just won't stop, you know, it just keeps going and going, and I keep thinking about things, that it's hard to stop, I think.
考特尼：不，有时能。事后我能回过头去意识到我做了什么。但是在当时我根本停不下来，就是在那想呀想呀，难以停止。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
COURTNEY: And I kind of realize what I will realize eventually.
考特尼：我似乎也意识到最后我会明白什么。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now, something applies that we talked about the other week when we are talking about worry. Worry
is another type of that kind of thinking, what you call obsessing. These thoughts, the way I put it two weeks ago was these thoughts pretend to be important and necessary. These thoughts want to draw in
all your conscious attention. It's almost as if every thought were saying, "Give me your attention, this
is very important, you must think about this, think, think."
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，两周前我们谈论的担忧就是现在这种情况。 担忧是这种思考的另一种类型，你管它叫纠结。两周前我是这样解释的：这些想法假装很重要也很必要，它们想要吸引你全部的注意力。就好像每一个想法都在说：“关注我吧，我非常重要，你必须考虑考虑再考虑。”
COURTNEY: Right.
考特尼：对。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So these, the thoughts have the ability, they have a certain momentum behind them. This is the
momentum of the mind. And so it's not easy to become free of that. But the first freedom is in realizing
their futility in the moment they happen. And to realize that it is, they fulfill no useful purpose except
to make your life miserable.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：所以，这些想法很有能力，它们身后有某种力量支撑着它们，这就是思维的力量。所以要挣脱它获得自由并不容易。但是要想获得自由，第一步是，在它们出现时认识到它们毫无用处，认识到它们不能帮助我们达成任何有用的目标，只能令我们的生活暗淡无光。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Because what has the obsessing gotten you? What does it do for you?
欧普拉（主持人）：耶。那些纠缠使你得到了什么？它为你做了什么？
COURTNEY: Absolutely nothing. Worry, more worry. Yeah. It's just kind of an idea how to be, how
to just…
考特尼：什么都没做。担忧，更多担忧。是。那只是：怎样才能，怎么……之类的想法。
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And, also, it takes energy away from your being. It takes energy away from your being able to be fully present with whatever it is you're doing.
欧普拉（主持人）：并且，它带走你的能量。它使你不能完全融入你当下正在做的事情。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can see that, right?
欧普拉（主持人）：你能明白吧？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You see that.
欧普拉（主持人）：你明白了。
COURTNEY: Oh yeah, yeah.
考特尼：哦，是，是。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay.
欧普拉（主持人）：好吧。
COURTNEY: It's just at the time sometimes it's not so.
考特尼：只是有时候在当时还是有点不一样。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
欧普拉（主持人）：是。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So rather than trying to get rid of those thoughts—because what you resist persists.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：不要尽力去摆脱那些想法-越是赶它它越是不走。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
欧普拉（主持人）：对。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you try to get rid of those thoughts, that will be hard. But if you see they are futile and they are
meaningless and they are no more than part of the structure of the conditioned egoic mind, because if
you change your situation, you will obsess about something else, you've experienced that already. So if you're in a relationship, you have, then have some other thing to obsess about. If there's no
relationship, you can obsess about the lack of relationship.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：摆脱掉那些想法是困难的。但是如果你看到它们无效，它们无意义，它们只是虚拟自我的一部分，因为如果你改变形式，你又会纠缠上别的，你有过这种经历。如果在恋爱，你会纠缠恋爱带来的一些问题。如果没在恋爱，你又忧虑孤家寡人的状况。
COURTNEY: Yup.
考特尼：是呀。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yup.
欧普拉（主持人）：是呀。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If
you're, or if you're making money, you can obsess about perhaps losing it, perhaps the financial market will collapse.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：如果在赚钱，则担心会把钱搞丢，金融市场可能会崩溃。
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COURTNEY: Exactly.
考特尼：确实。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
欧普拉（主持人）：正确。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And,
or if you have no money, then you obsess about how to make money. So, see the futility of all this movement of thought in the moment it happens and realize it actually takes away your power. It's like
a little parasite. Egoic thought patterns are almost like a parasitic entity that lives in you, and it sucks
up all your conscious attention.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：如果你没钱，又得去琢磨如何挣钱。所以，看到这些思考的发生，看到它的无效性，意识到它带走你的力量，它有点像一只小寄生虫。自我的思考模式真有些像生活在你体内的寄生虫，它吸光你全部的注意力。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got that, right Courtney?
欧普拉（主持人）：你明白了吧，考特尼？
COURTNEY: Oh yeah. It makes sense now, it's just when I'm going through it, I can't stop.
考特尼：是，现在我明白了，只是当我在想时，我停不下来。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Well, the thing to do is all of this doesn't, happening, you know, awakening doesn't happen all at once.
欧普拉（主持人）：是。你要知道，觉醒不是突然就发生了。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：不是。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The whole process is you have to catch yourself doing it more and more
often. You start slowly, and more and more often you catch yourself and pretty soon—or later—you'll
find…yeah.
欧普拉（主持人）：这需要一个过程，你要越来越经常地逮到自己的胡思乱想。开始时不必着急，逐渐地，你越来越多的逮到自己，然后很快-你就会发现……
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes,
yes. Or another thing that might be helpful is when the mind is not overly active, just normal moments, occasionally choose to take your attention away from thinking. We mentioned it earlier. And bring
your attention to the present moment. Either use the device of feeling the inner body, conscious breath, sense perceptions, consciousness, alert sense perceptions. So choosing to be present rather than to be thinking.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，是的。也许这样做管用：当你的思维不是过度活跃时，就是很平常的日子，偶尔尝试去将你的注意力从思索上转移掉，我们以前提到过：通过感觉你的内在身体，感觉你的呼吸，感觉你的感知系统，感觉你的意识，感觉你的报警系统，把你的注意力带回到当下。所以选择呆在当下，而不是选择思考。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what that does is you begin to train yourself. You begin to train yourself to be present with yourself.
欧普拉（主持人）：那样做的意义是你开始训练你自己。你开始训练自己，和自己保持临在。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：正确。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's about present moment training.
欧普拉（主持人）：那就是活在当下训练课。
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Training. Or, and you grow, and then presence grows in you.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：训练，然后你得到成长，再之后当下开始在你心中长大。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, it does.
欧普拉（主持人）：是的，的确。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But you have to invite it in.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：但是你必须邀请当下进来。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah.
欧普拉（主持人）：耶，耶。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Invite
it in when the mind is not totally mad.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：当你的心还没有完全失控时，邀请当下进来。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
欧普拉（主持人）：对。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then when the mind does become, when these periods come when it gets totally mad, then it's more likely that there will still be a presence there in the background.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：那么当那种纠结又来了，心乱如麻难以控制时，那么至少心中的那个当下还在后方支撑着。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Still can take a breath.
欧普拉（主持人）：还能够做一个呼吸。
COURTNEY: Right.
是的。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm getting better at it. I've gotten better in the past five weeks. And you will too, Courtney.
欧普拉（主持人）：我理解的更透彻了。随着这五个星期的课程，我理解的越来越深了。你也会的，考特尼。
COURTNEY: Thank you. Thank you.
考特尼：谢谢，谢谢。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thanks, everybody, at Borders, thank you all. Okay, somebody asked earlier, there was an e-mail where somebody wanted to know, and I didn't get to it, wanted to know whether or not that pain-body allows artists and writers and creative people to be more creative, the pain-body.
欧普拉（主持人）：谢谢，感谢大家，感谢边境的所有人。好，这里有一封邮件，是早些时候的，关于痛苦之身是否令艺术家和作家和其他有创造力的人更有创造力。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There are, especially in modern art and modern writing, there are some artists who express the pain-body in
their work. So when you read their work or when you see their visual art, you can see, "Wow, there's a
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lot of pain in there." And perhaps that is how they free themselves, to some extent, of the pain-body because they externalize it and make it into an object out there.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：尤其是在现代艺术和现代写作中，一些艺术家在作品中表达他们的痛苦之身。当你阅读他们的作品时或是当你欣赏他们的视觉艺术时，你会看到：“哇哦，我能看到那样多的痛苦。”也许他们将他们的痛苦外显出来，并且转化成一个艺术作品，从而在某种程度上释放了痛苦，获得了自由。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. You can take that suffering and turn it into something else.
欧普拉（主持人）：耶。你可以接纳痛苦，然后将它转变为别的东西。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
Now, whether this will be, whether this is really helpful to many humans, I don't know, to see so much
pain on a canvas.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。在一幅油画里看到很多的痛苦，我不知道这样做是否真的对很多人有帮助。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
欧普拉（主持人）：嗯。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I'm sure it was helpful for the artist to externalize that.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：但是我确信表达出那些痛苦对艺术家本人是有帮助的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
欧普拉（主持人）：正确。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So I
believe that the deepest art goes deeper than that and just show the pain, the human pain.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：所以我相信最深沉的艺术不仅仅是显露人类的痛苦，还应该挖掘更深的内容。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
欧普拉（主持人）：对的。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It goes, it might, may also include the human pain, but like the great works of literature are not just expressions of human suffering, they also show a dimension that's beyond suffering.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：可能会包含痛苦，但是，最伟大的文学作品不仅仅展现人类的痛苦，同时展现了痛苦之外的维度的内容。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Well, another question from Mary in Birmingham, Michigan.
"Politics in the pain-body," she writes. "Is it the pain-body that leads us to be fascinated with others' downfalls, such as the governor of New York and mayor of Detroit? I find myself eagerly watching the news to hear more about the scandals. I find myself wondering what I would do if I were in their place, having risen so high, so successful and fallen so far, fallen so far." That's Mary in Birmingham,
Michigan. Is that our pain-body that loves to hear bad things about other people? The tabloids?
欧普拉（主持人）：好的。密执安伯明翰的玛丽有个问题：“痛苦之身对政治的反应。”她写道：“是不是痛苦之身令我们对别人的垮台，比如纽约州的州长，底特律的市长的垮台特别着迷？”我发现自己热衷于看到新闻中有关各种丑行的报道，与此同时，我在心里想，要是我在他们的位置上，职位那么高，那么成功，然后彻底垮下来，我该怎么办？”这是密执安伯明翰的玛丽的问题：我们的痛苦之身是喜欢听到关于别人的坏消息吗？小报上的内容？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, hearing…
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，听到……
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even watching the news, things that are true, scandals.
欧普拉（主持人）：甚至看到新闻，真事，丑事。
????????????????????????????????????
?????????????
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Loving bad news.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：喜欢坏消息。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, loving bad news.
欧普拉（主持人）：是的，喜欢坏消息。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Is also of the pain-body. And so there are some, some publications actually thrive on emotional
negativity. They actually, they sell a negative emotion. Some newspapers do it in their headlines, and
because they have realized the more negative the headlines are, the more papers they sell.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：这也是痛苦之身的问题。所以有一些出版物实际上正是靠这样的负面内容而大卖。实际上，他们在销售负面情感。一些报纸的大标题全是这些，因为他们知道：越是负面标题，报纸卖的越好。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, you were saying the British press love it.
欧普拉（主持人）：是的，你是说英国出版界喜欢这样。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They love it. Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，他们喜欢。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And we do too now in our country.
欧普拉（主持人）：是。我们国家现在也是这样。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. Yeah.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): More and more tabloid newspapers, tabloid magazines, following the lives of famous people. People love to see famous people fail, fall.
欧普拉（主持人）：越来越多的小报，杂志，争相报道名人的生活。人们喜欢看到名人失败，堕落。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And is, that's our pain-body?
欧普拉（主持人）：是我们的痛苦之身在作怪吗？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Whatever, whenever you see in that negativity, the enjoyment of negativity in whatever form, or the enjoyment of negative events, the enjoyment of negative things happening to people, the enjoyment of your own negative thinking, all that is pain-body. It lovers pain and lives on it.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。你看到那些负面的东西，你喜欢它们，喜欢那些负性事件，喜欢看到人们发生什么坏事，喜欢你自己的负性思维，所有这些都是痛苦之身。它喜欢痛苦，它以痛苦为生。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And loves drama. It seeks drama.
欧普拉（主持人）：它喜欢有事发生，它喜欢找事。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Drama is part of that pain, yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：出事是痛苦的一部分。
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?????????????
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.
欧普拉（主持人）：是的。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. That story you told about going into the restaurant.
欧普拉（主持人）：是的。你讲的那个去饭馆的故事。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：噢，是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Oh my gosh. Going into the restaurant and this guy is all disrupted. Wow.
欧普拉（主持人）：是，哎呦。去饭馆，然后那个家伙精神分裂似的。哇哦。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, but the, it was particularly strange because it happened immediately after I'd had a session with a
woman who had a very heavy pain-body at home. She came to see me at home, and she had carried this pain-body for many, many years. It was so heavy that one could almost sense it in the energy field.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，挺巧的，那天在家里我刚刚为一位深陷于痛苦之身的女士做完治疗。这位女士来到我家，她很多年来一直痛苦不堪。她是那么痛苦，以至于你能在能量场中感觉的到。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. We've all encountered people like that where it's deep, it's heavy, it's dark.
欧普拉（主持人）：是的。我们都见过那种人，特别痛苦，特别灰暗。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, yes. So I had been doing work with her, and suddenly she became conscious. She was able to
separate suddenly for the first time in her life, she was able to separate herself from the pain-body, and there was an awareness that realized she was carrying this heavy pain-body inside. That was a great liberation for her, and she went off and said, "Oh, this is wonderful, thank you so much." And that was
the beginning of the change in her. And after this session with the woman I went off to the restaurant.
And I felt so happy that the pain-body had left her, not left her permanently, but the awareness had
come in. And then, in the restaurant, I encountered a man in a wheelchair at a table nearby who had just finished his meal, and then I could feel the negative emotion in him building up becoming stronger and stronger and stronger, and suddenly he started shouting and screaming. And the, I realized I had a suspicion that the pain-body, the universal pain-body, because every person or pain-body is the expression of the one human universal pain-body, that the pain-body had come back there to tell me,
"I'm still here. You thought you got rid of me, but I'm still here." So the pain-body got into the person who had the most negativity inside.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是，是，是。所以我一直在给她做工作，突然，她醒悟了。她有生以来第一次能够把她自己和她的痛苦之身分离，她觉知到自己在内心背负着痛苦之身。像是革命解放了，她离开时说：“哦，太棒了，太感谢你了。”那是她改变的开始。这段治疗结束之后，我去了餐馆。我感到特别高兴，痛苦之身离开了她，虽然不是永久的离开，但是她已经有了觉知。然后，在餐馆里，我碰见一个坐着轮椅的男士，离我不远，刚刚吃完。之后，我感觉到他的负性情绪在心中堆积，越来越强烈，越来越强烈，突然，他开始大喊，尖叫。恍然间，我意识到我有些怀疑：痛苦之身，普遍存在于人类的痛苦之身，每个人，每个痛苦之身都是人类众生痛苦之身的一个彰显，所以，那位女士的痛苦之身回到那儿去告诉我：“我还在呢。你认为你除掉了我，但是我还在这儿。”所以痛苦之身就挑中了内心最为负面的那个人。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause the person with the most negativity would have drawn that.
欧普拉（主持人）：因为最为负面的那个人吸引了痛苦之身。
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?????????????
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Drawn it in, yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：把它吸了进来，是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But did you, at the end of this incident in the book that you write about, and the restaurant owner says, "Did you do all this, did you cause this?"
欧普拉（主持人）：你在书里写道，后来，餐馆老板说：“这都是你干的吧，是你引起的吧？”
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): See, the restaurant owner must have had some intuition that there was some connection.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：看，餐馆老板直觉到了某些关联。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Between you sitting in the restaurant.
欧普拉（主持人）：坐在餐馆里的你。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And every, and all this disruption.
和欧普拉（主持人）：和那个精神分裂。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so the answer is? Did you? Did the pain-body follow you into the restaurant?
欧普拉（主持人）：所以，答案是什么？那个痛苦之身跟随你到了餐馆吗？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I
never knew the answer. It occurred to me that that might have happened. All it means is that the
energy that was so heavy, the room, my place where she had come to see me was so heavy with that energy when I left, perhaps it came with me. And it's possible. I don't know the final answer to that,
but it's a possibility.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：我不知道答案，但似乎是这样。所有这些意味着：那份能量非常沉重，房间里，家里她呆过的地方都充斥着那份巨大的能量，以至于当我离开时，他就跟上了我。这有可能，我不知道最终的答案，但是有这种可能。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause yeah, cause as we were saying earlier, you speak of the pain- body like if it's an alien force, like it's like a ghost of some kind.
欧普拉（主持人）：因为，我们曾经说过，你说痛苦之身像是一种来自外太空的力量，又像是某种幽灵。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it is. It's not a ghost; it's an energy.
欧普拉（主持人）：但是它不是一个幽灵；它是一种能量。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's an energy.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：一种能量。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's an energy field.
欧普拉（主持人）：一个能量场。
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And
it becomes, eventually it becomes transmuted, which means it loses its energy for its pain-body form, and the very energy that was trapped there, because the energy was trapped, it was emotional energy that was trapped inside this shell, that becomes freed through presence.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：最后它的性质发生改变，这意味着痛苦之身失去了能量，这份能量就好像潜伏在痛苦之身这个壳子里，它是情感的能量，当它被带到当下打开盖子时，它就被释放获得自由了。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's what we're going to talk about next week is how you can begin
to free the pain-body or any energy that you're carrying from the past.
欧普拉（主持人）：那就是我们下周要谈的：如何释放痛苦之身或者任何你摆脱不掉的有关过去的能量。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you can see it instantly.
欧普拉（主持人）：并且你立即就能看到。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You free it instantly, but although not the whole of it necessarily instantly, but in the moment some of it
can become transmuted. And I'll, the example I give is like, it's like putting a log into the fire. The fire is
the fire of consciousness or presence. And so the pain-body can actually be transmuted and becomes presence. We'll talk about that next week.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：你立即就能将它释放掉，虽然不一定将它全部释放掉，但是当时就感觉不一样了。我举个例子，就像往火里添了一根木头。火指的是意识或是当下，所以痛苦之身，能够显出原形，能够被改变。我们下周再谈这个话题。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Next week. Before we say goodbye, though, let's sum up what we've covered in this class today. What do you want people to know about the pain-body?
欧普拉（主持人）：下周再谈。在我们结束之前，让我们总结一下今天课上所学的东西，关于痛苦之身，人们都应该知道什么？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The most vital thing is for people to be there when it happens. Now, when it happens means it's either happening to somebody close to you at home, your partner or family member or, more importantly, when the pain-body happens to you. Now, it's easier to realize that the pain-body's there when you
see it arising in somebody else. Always easier.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：最关键的是我们在它出现的时候认出它，无论它是出现在和你非常亲近的家人身上，同伴身上，家庭成员身上，还是，更重要的，出现在你自己身上。现在，当它出现在别人身上时，认出它还是比较容易的，总是更容易一些。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In other people.
欧普拉（主持人）：当出现在别人身上时。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You'll require more presence to see it in yourself. But that's the vital thing is to be there and realize it, that's
the pain-body.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：要认出自己的需要更完全的临在。最关键的就是在那里，认出它，它就是痛苦之身。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, the way you know it's in yourself is when you start to tell yourself a story. The woman who was the big fat cow or her family had called her a big fat cow her
whole life, when you start to, replaying the tapes in her head over and over again, my story, my story,
my story, identifying with that, anything you identify with is ego.
欧普拉（主持人）：好，识别它的方法是：当你要讲故事时，那个一生被家人叫做大肥牛的女士，当你开始在心中播放旧唱片时，一遍又一遍地，我的故事，我的故事，我的故事，认同它，你所认同的就是你的自我。
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?????????????
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. That's how you know it's the pain-body.
欧普拉（主持人）：对。那种情况就是痛苦之身。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes,
or a sudden emotion arises. Something, your partner made a remark, said something and an enormous,
an emotional [unintelligible] is that it's out of proportion to the external trigger. And that could be the beginning of arising pain-body. So then you say, "Oh, there's the pain-body." Then you're
already, you're not at the mercy of the pain.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。或者是突然的情绪爆发。比如，你的同伴说了一句什么，你因而突然地的大发雷霆，那有可能是你的痛苦之身。然后你对自己说： “哦，痛苦之身来了。”那么，你就已经，不会任由痛苦之身摆布了。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let me ask you this. On the night that you had that, you know, the breakthrough where you said, "I cannot live with myself any longer," did you lose your pain-body too?
欧普拉（主持人）：我想问个问题。那天夜里，你的痛苦之身造访，当你说： “我再也受不了我自己了”，你得到了突破，这个时候，你甩掉了痛苦之身吗？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, that was just one happ y day, wasn't it?
欧普拉（主持人）：哦，那是幸福的一天，对吗？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's quite rare.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：非常少见。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh my goodness. You lost your ego, you lost your pain-body, what a day that was.
欧普拉（主持人）：哦天哪。你丢掉了自我，丢掉了痛苦之身，多么伟大的一天。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah, well.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是，是啊。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
欧普拉（主持人）：是。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): After years of dreadful suffering. So that's the, one more thing to say about the pain-body is when you see it
in somebody else, you have to be very careful. The pain-bodies don't like to hear that they are the
pain-body. So when you're talking to somebody like your partner, you have to be very careful because once the partner has already been taken over by the pain-body, if at that stage you say, "There's your pain-body," your partner won't hearing you anymore, the pain-body will be hearing you, and the pain- body will say something back, and it won't be pleasant.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：在多年的可怕的煎熬之后。我还有一件事要提醒大家：当你看到别人的痛苦之身时，你一定要小心。痛苦之身不喜欢被认出来，所以当你和同伴谈话，一旦同伴出现痛苦之身，你一定要小心，如果当时你说：“你的痛苦之身来了”，你的同伴可能就不再听你说了，接下来听你说的是痛苦之身，痛苦之身就会反驳你，事情就变得不愉快了。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Will defy you. And it won't be pleasant.
欧普拉（主持人）：反抗辩解，陷入僵局。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you can't argue with the pain-body. No way you can ever…
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：你不能和痛苦之身争辩，你绝不会……
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Can't?
欧普拉（主持人）：不会？
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can't, you can never win an argument with the pain-body, it'll always win, the pain-body will win. It'll
go on and on and on and finds another clever argument why the pain is justified and right.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：你不会赢的，痛苦之身总是会赢，它会不停不停不停地说，它总是能找到素材来证明为什么有那么多痛苦，痛苦是多么的理所当然。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so it's like our first caller from Silver Spring was talking about her sister. What we must learn to do is be compassionate.
欧普拉（主持人）：所以就像最早打进电话的银泉的那位女士说的她姐姐的事，我们要学会的是充满同情。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stand still.
欧普拉（主持人）：保持安静。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stand still, as I said with the poem. Stand still and allow it to be whatever it is.
欧普拉（主持人）：保持安静，就像那首诗所写的。保持安静，让一切发生。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：是的，是的。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then…
欧普拉（主持人）：然后……
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then you don't feed it.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：然后不要喂养它。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't feed it. Don't allow yourself to be drawn into, pulled into the drama of it.
欧普拉（主持人）：不要喂它。不要让自己掉进去，牵扯进去。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And
if the pain-body is not fed, then it won't sustain itself for that long. It will have to seek some other
place where it will get fed or it will subside. So that's the beauty when you're in a relationship. If both partners are conscious enough, you can have an agreement that says, "If I observe the pain-body beginning in you, or you observe the pain-body beginning in me, please let me know."
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：如果痛苦之身不被喂食，那么它不会维持太久。要么它会去找其它能够得到喂食的地方，要么它就平息了。恋爱中的人会感受到这种美妙。如果双方都足够清醒，你们可以定个协议:“如果我看到你的痛苦之身，或者你看到我的痛苦之身，请让我知道。”
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're going to point it out.
欧普拉（主持人）：把它指出来。
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You have to point it out at the beginning before it takes over completely because once it's taken over
completely, the person won't be hearing you anymore. But at the beginning, you could still say, "Could that be your pain-body?" Even that is dangerous, but you can try.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：你必须在它刚刚露头的时候就把它指出来，因为一旦它完全发作，对方就不再听你说话了。但是在它刚露头时，你可以说：“那是不是你的痛苦之身呀？”甚至这时也有危险，但是你可以试试。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "No, it's not my pain-body!" Well, thanks to everybody around the world for joining us. Again, this fifth class will be available on demand tomorrow for free, of course, here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download or watch any of our classes, you can do that, also,
tomorrow. All of them are available at Oprah.com and iTunes. It's free. Thanks to Nature Made Softgel vitamins. Don't forget to update your workbook and get ready for next week's class. Again, we thank
you.
欧普拉（主持人）：“不，不是痛苦之身！”好，感谢全世界的每个人参加我们的节目。再次强调，今天的课程明天就可以在Oprah.com上免费看到了。如果需要下载或是观看任何一期节目，同样明天可以在Oprah.com上看到。所有的课程都可以在Oprah.com上和iTunes上看到，并且免费。感谢纯天然维他命软胶囊。别忘了更新你的记事本，做好准备收看我们下周的节目。再次感谢。
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you.
艾克哈特·托尔（《新世界：灵性的觉醒》作者）：谢谢。
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We thank you. You're a man without a pain-body. We'll see you in class next time. Thank you. Goodnight, everybody.
欧普拉（主持人）：我们感谢你，你是一个没有痛苦之身的人。下次上课见，谢谢。大家晚安。
翻译：宗宝玲
2010-11-1
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